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Post by Jay on Jan 14, 2015 16:02:35 GMT
You are reading back into Col 2:12-13 that baptism replaces or fullfills circumcision. They are 2 different things in the economy of salvation. Physical circumcision has never been a part of salvation in Christ but it is in a spiritual sense.
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Post by Michael Lofton on Jan 14, 2015 16:55:19 GMT
Jay
You say
Where did I read in to Colossians 2:11-13?
You say
My argument does not rest on the assertion that physical circumcision was in the economy of salvation, but surely it did play some part in the economy of salvation since the refusal to be circumcized resulted in being cut off from the Covenant community in Genesis 17:14 which says
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Post by Jay on Jan 14, 2015 20:11:06 GMT
Your reference to Genesis 17:14 was for the people of Israel in the OT. That covenant is not the same covenant that Christ has instituted for the church. It is different.
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Post by Michael Lofton on Jan 14, 2015 20:37:16 GMT
Jay,
You say
LOL. Right. It is painfully obvious it is not the same covenant for the Church. The point is, if the administration of the sign of a covenant is not to be given to infants, as it was in the previous covenants of God, then there would need to be an explicit mandate stating that the sign should not be given to the children. Yet, we find the opposite in the NT, for example, Peter says to be baptized because the promise of the Holy Spirit is for you and "your children" (Acts 2).
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Post by Jay on Jan 14, 2015 20:58:55 GMT
No. If there was sign that was to be given to infants then we would see one. Peter in Acts is not saying that they are to baptize infants. The promise is for those who repent and believe: " Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
To repent means that person is turning from their sins and to Christ. Infants cannot repent nor believe.
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Post by Michael Lofton on Jan 14, 2015 21:09:00 GMT
Jay
You say
Read the next verse.
The exhortation to repent and believe applies for those that are capable of repenting and believing. For those that are not capable, such as infants, the sign of the covenant is to be given to them as it would have been in the Old Testament to male infants.
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Post by Jay on Jan 14, 2015 21:13:48 GMT
Where in the OT or NT does is say something like the last sentence you wrote " For those that are not capable, such as infants, the sign of the covenant is to be given to them as it would have been in the Old Testament to male infants"?
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Post by Michael Lofton on Jan 14, 2015 21:20:22 GMT
You ask
Have you never read Genesis 17 where infants (who are not capable of excercising repentance and faith) were to be given the sign of the old Covenant?
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Post by Jay on Jan 14, 2015 22:36:44 GMT
That is a different covenant and it did not involve females. There is nothing in Genesis 17 about repentance and faith.
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Post by Michael Lofton on Jan 15, 2015 21:18:22 GMT
Jay,
You say
This much is obvious.
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